Autistic Health Challenges

Ready to hear all about chronic pain, illness, and being autistic? We're ready to talk about it! Join us for a raw and real conversation about what it's like to navigate these challenges, especially when the onset is pretty sudden. 

We're answering this question about autistic health challenges:

• Are there any unique experiences for autistic people who suddenly get injured or start to have an on-going illness? I’m already bad with transitions and now I have to deal with all of these other changes. Any tips or tricks?

To ask us questions, fill out the form at www.neurokink.org/auys

Find more content on Patreon (18+): www.patreon.com/AcesUpYourSleevePodcast

Sabrina at www.radicalingingishtsconsulting.com or @radicalinsightsconsulting on social media (FB, IG)

Kade at www.cryptidlearns.com or @cryptidlearns on social media (FB, IG)

Transcript

SPEAKER_01 0:06

This is the Aces Up Your Sleeve podcast, and we're the Aces Up Your Sleeve in relationships from romantic to workplace, parental to platonic, your relationship with yourself, and everything in between. That led us to autistic aspect kinky therapist to be your secret weapon in neurodivergent life.

SPEAKER_00 0:24

And here's your disclaimer: this is not therapy or therapeutic advice, and we're not on the clock. What you'll hear are our thoughts on different topics, what we might do in your shoes, and how we've supported others through similar situations.

SPEAKER_01 0:48

Hello and welcome to the Aces Up Your Sleeve podcast. I'm your host, Cade. And I'm your host, Sabrina. And we're coming to you today with no mini-series. And instead, we're gonna talk about autism and like health conditions, chronic pain, all those types of things, because we both are feeling under the weather today.

SPEAKER_00 1:07

Ugh, I hate it. I'm so deeply not used to being sick, and it's the worst thing ever.

SPEAKER_01 1:13

It's so overstimulating, but also understimulating because sometimes you just don't feel like you can do much to yes. Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 1:22

Yeah, like it's been I I actually felt like I was like kind of being on a roll. Like I've been keeping up with my notes well because my boss has a bet with me that he's gonna wear a lobster costume to the therapist event in Maine if I keep on top of my notes well. And so like that's been really nice because it also just helps me to like be able to start my day doing other stuff besides notes. And and then my partner like has been coming home with a little cough, and they work with four and five-year-olds, so they're always bringing something home. But my immune system is typically pretty good, and this one got me, man.

SPEAKER_01 1:59

That's so hard. And when you're like getting that during a workday, and we're coming up to the weekend, that's hard.

SPEAKER_00 2:07

Yeah, well, and our jobs are so talky.

SPEAKER_01 2:10

Yes. I was having some pretty severe brain fog yesterday, which is not common for me. So my sentences were like the same point two or three times in a row, and I'm like, no, what am I stop talking? This doesn't make sense. I almost canceled on people. I was like, if I had one more person today, I would cancel, but luckily I hung in there till that like last awkward session.

SPEAKER_00 2:33

Yeah. It is one of the things I like about working with like um neurodivergent folks and disabled folks is that like a lot of times they really get it. I'll be like, yo, my brain is extra weird and scrambly today. Please bear with. And they'll be like, no worries. I'm like, Thank you.

SPEAKER_01 2:50

Oh, yeah. And if it was really bad and I had to cancel if I was like, I gotta refund you and just go lay down, I think they would all be like, Yeah, no problem. See you next time. For sure.

SPEAKER_00 3:00

For sure. Yeah, it's a it's a weird, weird, weird world. Um, especially because like so many autistic folks do have like so much co-occurring stuff and kind of always have. Um it's also weird when like that's not always been the case.

SPEAKER_01 3:20

Yeah, yeah, because hearing you say, like, I've I only get sick a little bit, like this is pretty rare. That's not a super common experience for autistic people. Usually we are more prone to certain types of illness, and our immune systems are generally a little more compromised. Our gut microbiomes are like more similar, which we want a varied one. So there's lots of reasons that we might be more prone to getting sick. It's cool that you generally are not, though.

SPEAKER_00 3:45

I mean, knock on wood, um, it has been more in the last maybe five years than it has been in the like five or ten before that. Um, and part of that is just like I live with someone who works with children. Um and their immune system isn't great, so they're bringing stuff in. Um, but yeah, I I had been very lucky. Um and that first time that I got sick from like after I hadn't been sick for a really long time, like fucking blew my socks off. I was like, what is going on? What is happening to me? Like it was really, really bad. Um, and I also like don't know what to do with it. Like, I don't think to cancel clients, I don't think to take Tylenol. Like, until I lived with my partner who gets sick a fairly often amount, and like we both have some chronic pain stuff. Um, and part of it is that like I don't take pills well, but like I just didn't have any Tylenol in the house. I didn't, I don't, I still don't really know where we keep any meds or anything like that, like besides one bottle of Tylenol that I keep on my desk, like because I don't get sick that much. And so now that I am a little bit more frequently, I'm like, what do I do? I don't know how to handle that.

SPEAKER_01 5:05

Yeah, it's tough to know. Especially when you're not very sick very often, and there are so many options out there for meds and all sorts of things. Similar to you, you know, before a couple of years ago, I also used to go to my partner, like, okay, here's the symptoms. What do I take for that? And he would know because he's dealt with chronic health issues for a long time, and he's raised a kid who also had health stuff, so he knew, but now I feel like a walking pharmacy.

SPEAKER_00 5:33

Oh, yeah. Luckily, my best friend is a nurse, um a res registered nurse practitioner. She's she's like got the whole doctor and everything. Um, and yeah, my partner also uh has some chronic health stuff, and so I just send them like a little group text of like ISIC, what do help? Help, don't know, don't know what do.

SPEAKER_01 5:57

Gosh, it's good that you've got some people like that, yeah.

SPEAKER_00 6:00

For sure.

SPEAKER_01 6:01

Well, jumping into some of the questions for today. First thing we've got here, are there any unique experiences for autistic people who suddenly get injured or start to have an ongoing illness? I'm already bad with transitions, and now I have to deal with all of these other changes. Any tips?

SPEAKER_00 6:18

Yeah. Um, so I was in a car accident in 2019 um and I broke my back and have never fully recovered from that. Um, and now deal with some chronic pain related to that. And like my posture's never been great. Like I've always had a little bit of stuff, but like like I said, like for the most part, I was pretty chilling before that. So uh I I definitely think that there is there's something here. And like you said, like you you also were pretty healthy before your illnesses kind of came up out of nowhere. Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 6:52

Yeah, that's uh with the injury. I mean, that's like an acute onset all at once, and then the recovery phase I'm sure is is so unique depending on the injury and what sort of like physical therapy you can access or other supports. What was that like for you?

SPEAKER_00 7:08

Um, pretty fucking awful. Um, so it was a car accident. I was it was uh fall break at school um in my grad program. So I had just uh told my like field supervisor that I wasn't going back to my field placement, um, and then was out on a camping trip on my way home, um, swerved to avoid a deer, which you're not supposed to do, but like the other option was hit the deer with the car, and that also seemed unwise with how big it was. Um and like really fucked my shit up. Um and at the time I was like no contact with my mother, but I called her because it was the only phone number I knew off the top of my head, and just like you know, you get into a car, so you can call your mom. Um and there was like some racism and bullshit at the hospital. Um, like the cop that had come to deal with it was like, I know you're on drugs. I know you're on drugs. And I was like, I mean, I'm on the morphine they just gave me. And if you check my blood, like I've got Adderall in there because I have a prescription for Adderall.

SPEAKER_01 8:21

So the conversation was happening like immediately after you're injured and you're on pain meds. Uh-huh.

SPEAKER_00 8:27

In the hospital, yeah, yeah, yeah. Like I had been like uh taken in the ambulance. I don't even remember the ambulance ride. Taken in the ambulance to the hospital, um, like assessed. I was in a room. I don't remember a lot of like that part of it, um, which probably speaks to whatever the fuck was going on. Um, and then a cow came and then I could hear him in the hall telling the nurses to like give him my blood. And I was like, even if you get it, it's going to say I have drugs in my system because they gave me drugs. Yeah. Hello? Um, and so then when my m white mother came in, he stopped.

SPEAKER_01 9:06

Oh, jeez.

SPEAKER_00 9:07

So it was super fun. Um, but so it was like a little kind of weird and extra traumatic. And so I don't know how much of that played into it, but um, so we went like when we went to get my car, the like actual trunk wouldn't open because it like the like it had fucked so hard up that it was like angry. Um, but we were trying to like get all my stuff out because like I had a bunch of stuff in there because I had been camping. Um and uh I saw it a few days before I went back to school, and then um like I'd I was supposed to go back to school that like Monday, but Monday I was in the hospital. And so um I kind of took a few days and then went back and like immediately realized how heavy the doors in the school of social work are. Immediately realized like how far you have to walk, even from like the bus to the building, right? Like all these things that like you know, they weren't my favorite thing before, but they certainly weren't helpful. And that was 2019, so that was October 2019. And so the hard part that also really affected things was after like A, I couldn't really access PT or anything. Um, there was one time that like my back was in so much pain, and I went to the um orthopedist?

SPEAKER_02 10:31

No, that's feet. Uh who is it that does like bones?

SPEAKER_01 10:39

Hide, I don't know, off the top of my head. I forget that.

SPEAKER_00 10:43

Um but the one near me is called like emerge ortho. Another ortho of some kind. Um but um you're right, orthopedic. Yeah. Okay. Um, and I was like, Can you do anything? They're like, No, it's a back injury, like you just have to let it heal. And I was like, Okay, I guess. Um and so it just kind of like uh caused me a lot of pain, and then lockdown started, and so I got even more sedentary, and so like I think that that really didn't help and compounded it even more because it's just like it hurts too much to move. Moving would actually probably be helpful. I'm not moving, I'm in too much pain, like the sensory nightmare of it, um, and all of that. And so um, I don't know that that's like specific to autistic people, but it definitely was like a confounding factor. Um, I think overall, like by the time my back starts hurting, I got no extra spoons for anybody. I don't have them for myself, I don't have them for my friends or my partner, I don't have them for my cat. Get the fuck away from me. Like, oof. Um that like physical pain thing really knocks out all my capacity.

SPEAKER_01 12:01

Totally fair. And it sounds like the injury messed with your routine, messed uh, I would assume also messed with how you would stim because you know, when you're able to move and enjoy movement, and then suddenly it's painful and horrible and it's like a cycle.

SPEAKER_00 12:16

Yeah. I don't know if I enjoyed movement at the time, but I definitely like I've always been like a sit upside down, sit on the floor. Like I used to, when I was uh like a teenager, I had a bed that was actually a click clack couch. So it's one of those couches that like go up and then like you like can lean it all the way back. Oh yeah. Um because I just didn't really use my bed that much. And so I would like sometimes I would sleep on there, but sometimes I would just like put all my blankets and like pillows and stuff on the floor and sleep on the floor. Um, that's no longer an option. That is uh very far from an option, even to the point that like my personal trainer and I, like anything that most people do on the floor, I do on like a set of stacked masks. Um, because I just can't get up and down from the floor very easily. Like it takes quite a lot.

SPEAKER_01 13:05

Yeah. So it's you know, the questions asking about transitions, and it sounds like there were quite a lot that came with that injury and with the like kind of delayed recovery. To hear somebody tell you that no, there's nothing that could be done feels wild too.

SPEAKER_00 13:20

Yeah, it uh harkens back to the last time we talked about medical stuff and the like um you know, advocacy and like how much you have to fight and stuff. And that's really frustrating because like when you're in a lot of pain, I trust you to know what what's possible and what's not.

SPEAKER_01 13:37

Well, yeah, they're the ones who are supposed to be like, well, it's not gonna fix it, but how about 10's unit to decrease some stuff or pain meds or whatever they have for you instead of your settings? Movements, yours, yeah, exactly.

SPEAKER_00 13:49

So yeah, and then yeah, like my it obviously like I'm sitting there trying to like write papers and that's really hard, like trying to get to class and stuff, and I now walk with a cane and um which also like so walking with a cane is another like a big one, right? Like having a sudden change into being like a mobility aid user. Yeah, because I gotta fucking remember that thing. When I went to Scotland, I did not, I did not remember that thing when I went to Scotland. Um, it sat in my car um as I got out of my car and into the airport. Um and because like uh my partner's brother dropped us off and then was like gonna use my car um while we were out of town and just fully forgot it. Like I I forget it all the time because it's not it's like um when I first started wearing glasses, I would forget them all the time. And especially because back then like my prescription was low enough that like I I just kind of take it or leave it. Like for the most part, it would just be like I'd have a headache by the end of the day. Um now I can really tell if I'm not wearing my glasses. Um but like it's that kind of getting used to like, oh, I have an extra step.

SPEAKER_01 15:02

Yeah, yeah, and remembering it, and then I I don't know what type of cane you prefer, but I know some of those like you have to take steps to get it like extended or the right length, or you know. Yeah, that's a lot of transitions. It is.

SPEAKER_00 15:17

Yeah. How about you? What was yours like?

SPEAKER_01 15:20

Um it was it was slow. So yours was like very sudden. Mine was like a slow decline in health, as you know, it sucks, but yeah. It went from being relatively healthy and of like a certain body weight and a certain uh physical ability to like, oh, some fatigue is hitting, and my body's changing, and now I've got less energy to do the playtherapy stuff I do with the kids, and okay, it's continuing to get worse, and sleep is now going bad, now my legs are tingling, like what? Now I'm getting really dizzy when I stand up. So I still don't know everything that's causing this, but through that it was like, okay, I've got sleep apnea, like let's try to get the sleep apnea under control, which is very common for autistic folks. And then okay, that's under control, things seem a little better. Nope. Now now I'm having like to go to the ER for back pain. Is it kidneys? What is this? Oh, it's endometriosis. That's not even something that had ever been on my radar, and it was very that was a very fast change. And then getting surgery to remove that. They say it takes a year for most people to recover from that surgery if they find things when they're doing the excision, which they did. And now I'm at the year mark and I'm like, things are getting even worse. Well, every time you go under anesthesia and you have all that work done and your body has to heal, like it's just very tough. So I'm sure there are still many things that are yet to uncover.

SPEAKER_00 16:45

I mean, it seems like just from being your friend, I mean, we talk every day. Um, it seems like at least once a week there is some kind of oh shit, I need to have this extra medical appointment or experience. I mean, you were just at the fucking um urgent care, yeah. Yeah, like earlier this week.

SPEAKER_01 17:03

Yeah. Yeah, and since January, things have changed even more. We're like, oh, randomly I have to like lay down, close my eyes, and pass out. Why? You know, it doesn't matter if I'm up for two hours, four hours, six hours working, there just is a point where it's like, I need to go lay down now, and they can't quite explain that. So I assume it's an autoimmune thing, but many of our listeners probably know it's very hard to get autoimmune things diagnosed and to find a specialist who believes in half of them and knows how to look for them. So with this question asking, like, how do you deal with all the changes? I think give yourself some compassion because I find myself getting so frustrated, like, you know, pre-changed. Yeah, it's like, what do you mean? Like, I scaled back my workload and I'm only working from home now, and still things are getting worse. You know, what do you mean I can't uh do a presentation for X amount of hours in a row anymore? That used to never be a problem. So getting yourself some compassion around like it's okay to be upset about the changes, and if you want to help yourself figuring out ways to make accommodations for yourself and not feeling too guilty about having to have accommodations.

SPEAKER_00 18:20

Yeah, it definitely took it was surprisingly easy to get my disability tag. I I also have a really great doctor, so like that went into the ease of that. Um, but like it's literally a form, it's a one-page form that you fill out some of and your doctor fills out some of. Um, and then you hand it to the license plate office and you hand them five or ten bucks, depending on how many placards you want. Um and then they hand it to you and you leave. And that's it. That's like the whole process. And it took me eight months to like accept enough that I needed it to ask for it. Um, and then my doctor was like, All right, let's give it to you for I think she said like I think we did like three months to start with. And then when I went back again, she was like, How long do you want it? Like, what's talk to me? And I was like, you know, I am trying to move my body more, like I'm trying to do the things for pain. The problem is that the pain is so bad that I can't do a lot of those things. Um and a lot of the things that I can't do are walk around a grocery store for the whole time it takes to grocery shop and then still make it back to the car. Um you know, go to an event and make it back to the car. Like the state fair is brutal, right? Like to to do all of that. And that's even with the cane. And she was like, okay, and you don't think this is getting better. And I was like, I mean, you're the doctor, um, but I haven't heard of many people whose chronic back pain from a broken back has gotten better in their 30s than it was in their 20s. So, like, you know, and so she signed a permanent one for me. Um, but it took a lot of like, yeah, like grace and acceptance of like, babe, you're disabled. And that's the same thing that half the time makes me forget my cane. Like, it's that, like, yeah, I've got ADHD brain, but also ADHD brain doesn't remember the things it doesn't want to remember. Like, sometimes it forgets things that it does want to remember. Sometimes it's just like, I don't want to have to do this. I want to be like able to keep up with my friends. Like, I've got a lot of friends who hike. My partner goes on a hike a week, and that's just not like we tried to even join like a little group of like black hikers in our area. It was super cute. I couldn't even close to keep up, like they were gone from like our view, and I was not even a quarter of the way, and I had to like sit down and like I just couldn't make it. And I'm lucky that I have a partner who was like totally fine, let's go back to the car and let's leave. Um, by the time we made it back to the car, they had looped all the way around the traffic coming back and like we're getting to their cars at the same time as me. Um, but like because I also already have so many like body things and like insecurities around that, it it takes like double effort to get through a lot of the like baby, you're disabled, and that's okay. Like it sucks, it it absolutely sucks, but it's also okay. Like it's true, you're not bad because you're disabled, which of course I don't think anyone else is, but it's it's hard when it comes to ourselves.

SPEAKER_01 21:18

Yeah, all those internalized ableism things or whatever comes up for us. Yeah, that's tough. And you're right, like the thing I'm hearing in there that might be a tip for this person finding people who support you, finding people who not that they don't see your disability, but that see you for who you are as a whole person, disability included, and want to involve you in their life and will take the like steps to do so.

SPEAKER_00 21:49

Yes. And it's like it's one of those things where like I feel so fortunate because even within like different friend groups, when I was in Scotland and my friends are like, yeah, let's all take the elevator. Because that's what Sabrina can do. Like, let's all take a stop and just like sit here and wait. We had to wait for like 45 minutes at the zoo for the little shuttle to come to take us up to the because the Scotland Zoo is just a straight hill all the way to the top of the fucking planet. Like it's just a mountain. Um, and so the way you usually do it is you go up one side and you come back down the other. And the shuttle was just taking forever, just forever. And everyone waited with me and like didn't like leave me behind. And that felt really nice. Like in Greece, and my friends are totally willing to like, yeah, let's stop. Let's wait here. Like, we don't have to go over there if you don't want to. How you doing? Walking slow with me, because that's another part, is like sometimes you're in groups of people and them that just take the fuck off. I can't take the fuck off. I'm slow, I need it to be slow, especially if we're on some kind of like incline. Slow, slow, not fun slow. Oh no, we missed it slow. Um, and having friends who are willing to go like that with you is like absolutely necessary.

SPEAKER_01 23:07

Yeah, that support piece and people who yeah, who include you and don't make it feel like a chore or a burden, like are excited to do it that way to include you. Yeah, for sure. I think uh we have another question, but maybe we can cover that in the upping the ante piece. Are there any other tips you can think of um ways to make that that transition a little bit easier for people?

SPEAKER_00 23:31

Um I think minimizing other transitions or like you know, like as much as you can, it's okay to like fall into a lot of your other specific habits or like comfort patterns. Um, I played a lot of video games the first year because it was just like I don't have to move my body, I don't have to like, you know, I can just sit here and play with my friend and like that's it. I also ordered a lot of takeout because like standing in order to cook is like oh my god, it takes so much out of me. It hurts my back so bad.

SPEAKER_01 24:11

Yeah, yeah, I know my my nurse, I think it was my nurse recently was like, anything you can do seated, please do seated. But even that sometimes, especially with a back issue, because right now my back is also it's the muscles giving me a horrible time. Sometimes you just have to be uh horizontal. Sitting is not even enough.

SPEAKER_00 24:32

Yes, absolutely. And like that's one of the things that I'm trying to figure out now, is like so I've got like the shower chair, and um, like that's helpful, especially because like my hair just takes forever to wash. Um and like trying to sit when I'm in the kitchen, things like that. But also, I recently bought a new couch and I worked really hard to get one that like is very upright and it's very like because I it's hard for me to hold my body up myself all the time. Like, call it hypermobility, call it like whatever the fuck you want to call it. That's just true. And so having it to do that for me is awesome. What's less awesome is that it's not as great to like lay out on. And so, yeah, like trying to find like things that are a balance of like, because my last couch was great to lay on, but it was really bad to sit on, like it did not hold you up well, so you would end up like kind of that weird half-laying that like is scrunching everything. Oh my god, awful. And so I think it's it's annoyingly a lot of trial and error.

SPEAKER_01 25:33

Yeah, yeah, because what works really well for one person might actually hurt you and vice versa. Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 25:38

Or what works really well for you in one situation. Like the couch that I have now is great for getting notes done, for sitting and like doing stuff on my computer, even for playing video games, but it's not great for like laying around and watching TV. And so, like, it's it's finding like how are you going to set things up as best you can for like multiple different scenarios.

SPEAKER_01 26:00

Yeah. I think another piece that can be helpful for me is finding where things are still funny and happy because when everything's going wrong, it can feel like okay, the there's just no breaks here. I get no breaks. But when you have like a little something that is amusing or positive, it's nice to acknowledge it even if you don't focus on it. So not in like a gaslighting, like, oh well, the one thing good happened, so everything's fine this week. But like, well, at least that was kind of funny.

SPEAKER_00 26:29

Yeah, like I think that that's a really important part is like the bad things don't make the good things unreal. The good things don't make the bad things unreal either. But the bad things don't get to make the good things unreal. And so, like having friends that will crack fucking jokes with you all throughout the whole day who like pop into your DMs and are like eh, and then like fuck off. Um, you know, I think like those are really, really invaluable as well.

SPEAKER_01 27:00

Absolutely. And I'm always big on like community spaces, even if you're just lurking in them, but finding people who are going through similar things to what you're going through, sometimes it can be depressing. Like I'm in a lot of groups for uh like the caregivers of loved ones with dementia or Alzheimer's, those can be really hard to read sometimes, and some people are so angry at the wrong thing. They're angry at the person, not at just the situation. So sometimes it's a little tough to be in those faces, but there are some real like nuggets of I'm glad I saw this, I'm glad I read this that still come across.

SPEAKER_00 27:39

Yeah, I think finding that balance of like here's some uplifting content. Um, and like you know, yeah, you got this, and then here's some gallows humor. If you are an enjoyer of gallows humor, here is some like unfettered fucking weird bullshit. Like, I think a lot of that is really important. Um, I'm even like I'm in a group that is about like decorating your um mobility aid. Oh, that's cool. So like people like bedazzle their canes or like um put light up stuff on their wheelchairs, like you know, figuring out because like that's at some point that's gonna be what I need to do. Is like I need to make the cane something that I want to be carrying around because like it's so sparkly and pretty. Um and figuring out like how are other people getting through this, I think is really important.

SPEAKER_01 28:29

Yeah. And those folks might have better tips than we do because our situations must might be much different than whatever everybody who's listening is going through. Yeah, absolutely. I think those are the big ones though, when I think about it. I I also like to do some deep diving into research and into like what do the doctors say and the people who are seeing the specialist if I can't access a specialist. And again, again, it's not always the most accurate for what I'm going through uniquely, but at least it gives me a little hope that people are researching it or looking into it, or they're like brainstorming options for things, even if it's not the medical field.

SPEAKER_00 29:06

Yeah, there's like a I think it's hard because so many people have lost so much faith in the medical field. And then when it comes to yeah, like fucking, we don't know anything about backs. Nobody, nobody knows nothing about a spine. Um, and same thing like weird autoimmune stuff or whatever, like when you go to the doctor and they're like, I don't know. It's like well, okay, what what do I what do I do with that? Um and so finding that balance of like, yes, we want to listen to medical professionals. And we also like it is okay to find other people who have found a medical professional who fucking understands what the fuck is happening.

unknown 29:44

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 29:45

Yes. Especially when it's something very niche, you know, like perhaps the back injury thing, or people with uh mass cell activation syndrome, which is very common for autistic people. Sometimes the doctors will say it doesn't exist or it's really rare, or here's how you treat it, and it's some treatment from 20, 30 years ago, but that's the last CE they took on a continuing education thing they took on it. Um but the people who are experiencing it might be like, here, you know, the Claritin ReadyTab Pepsid Complete combo keeps my MCAS at bay twice daily, and you're like, oh, thank goodness, because my doctor said here's some singular or whatever.

SPEAKER_00 30:27

Yeah, it's uh it's annoying, like how there's like that meme that's like I studied this for you know 10 years, and then like the doctor says, and then the like patient says, like, I've been living with it for 30. And the in my opinion, like both of those things matter. Yeah, both of them matter. Like, me living with something does not make me an immediate expert on that thing. Yeah, and it does give me an insight that someone who doesn't live with it does not have, even if they have studied it.

SPEAKER_01 31:02

We say that all the time with autism. Yes, an assessor's like, well, I've been doing this for 10 years, but they don't know the internal experiences and will miss it sometimes often.

SPEAKER_00 31:13

Or like an autistic person who is like, Yeah, well, now I'm the expert, and it's like on your experience.

unknown 31:19

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 31:20

Yeah, they may not be able to diagnose someone random walking into the room, but they might know themselves or their loved ones. Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 31:27

Exactly. And so it's the the like finding that balance, and it's it's annoying because it's not a balance that we're expecting to have to find. Um, and then you're disabled or chronically ill, and all of a sudden it becomes very important that you find that balance. Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 31:45

I think that hopefully answers that question, and we will go on to talk more about how we navigate life with chronic pain and illness. I know we started giving some tips, we'll go a little deeper on upping the ante. So everyone can expect new episodes weekly on Tuesdays. You can find me at Cryptid Learns and Sabrina at Radical Insights Consulting on Facebook or Instagram, or you can add a dot com at the end for our websites. You can follow the podcast on Facebook or Instagram at Aces Up Your Sleeve Pod. That way you can interact with us and see when new episodes release. And if you've got any questions, which we would love to answer, you can visit neurokink.org slash AUIS or click on it in the show links or show notes and send it our way. We're gonna jump over to Patreon and we'll record upping the ante, which is our exclusive bonus content. If you're streaming it separately, then you know where to find it. Otherwise, head over to patreon.com slash aces up your sleeve podcast and you can join our Patreon and stream it uh from there.