Parenting Autistic & ADHD Teens with Jamie Roberts

To wrap up our mini-series on Teens this week, we’re mostly talking to parents about how to support their autistic and ADHD teenagers! We’re joined by Jamie Roberts, an AuDHD LMFT, who specializes in supporting teens and has published two books for ND teens. We’re answering how to know when they need down time, the importance of recharging, and when you ought to be concerned. We’re also discussing why neurodivergent teens may not seem “motivated” toward independence these days - and how to support them.

We're answering:

• Can you talk about the importance of down time/alone time in high masking autistic teens, how to help them/their parents/family support that need, how to recognize the difference between helpful alone/down time and down time/alone time that may be signs of isolation?
• What do you recommend to parents of neurodivergent older teens/young adults that show no motivation for moving towards independence, taking into account the complexities of society right now and how next to impossible society makes it for young people to survive?

Jamie joined us today for our teen mini series because of the upcoming virtual GEMS ND Summit on Autistic + ADHD Teens on May 16th! Therapists and mental health professionals can check out neuropebble.com/gems-summit for more info. (This is the last week of the Early Bird pricing so snag a ticket soon!)

• Jamie at www.neuropebble.com or @neuropebble on Instagram
• GEMS Neurodiversity Community for therapists on FB: https://www.facebook.com/groups/924737776755804
• Neurodiversity for Teen Girls (Jamie’s new book!): https://www.newharbinger.com/9781648486234/neurodiversity-for-teen-girls

To ask us questions, fill out the form at www.neurokink.org/auys

Find more content on Patreon (18+): www.patreon.com/AcesUpYourSleevePodcast

Sabrina at www.radicalingingishtsconsulting.com or @radicalinsightsconsulting on social media (FB, IG)

Kade at www.cryptidlearns.com or @cryptidlearns on social media (FB, IG)

Transcript

SPEAKER_01 0:06

This is the Aces Up Your Sleeve podcast, and we're the Aces Up Your Sleeve in relationships, from romantic to workplace, parental to platonic, your relationship with yourself, and everything in between. That led us to autistic aspect kinky therapist to be your secret weapon in neurodivergent life.

SPEAKER_02 0:24

And here's your disclaimer: this is not therapy or therapeutic advice, and we're not on the clock. What you'll hear are our thoughts on different topics, what we might do in your shoes, and how we've supported others through similar situations.

SPEAKER_01 0:50

I'm Cade.

SPEAKER_02 0:51

And I'm Sabrina.

SPEAKER_01 0:53

And we are once again joined by the wonderful Jamie Roberts. Jamie uses she, her pronouns, and she's a licensed marriage and family therapist. She's also autistic, ADHD, dyslexic, and neuroqueer. She's the author of Mindfulness for Teen Anxiety and the new book, uh Neurodiversity for Teen Girls, which came out on April 1st. She's the founder of Equilibrium Counseling Services, a Teen Mental Health Center, and Neuropeble, a Neurodiversity Continuing Education website. She is the neurodivergent therapist throughout social media, and she's an active speaker on neurodivergent and teen topics with the goal of becoming who she needed when she was younger. Jamie, we're super excited to have you back and to talk about teen stuff with you.

SPEAKER_00 1:34

I'm so happy to be here. It's always a great conversation with the two of you. And of course, teens are my favorite topic to talk about. So I think this is going to be a super fun conversation today. Even the cat's here's like me too. Love that phrase.

SPEAKER_01 1:54

Joined by Zeus, the cat as well. Uh well, you and Zeus are joining us for our final episode in our three-part mini-series for teens. So we're talking about teens, uh, as Jamie knows, but also listeners, as you might know, because on May 16th, all three of us are going to be participating in the very first virtual GEMS Neurodiversity Summit. And our focus this time is going to be on working with autistic plus ADHD teens as therapists. So if you're a therapist listening, you might be interested. So Rena's going to talk about how to engage quiet or bored teens in therapy. I'll be covering how to build a strong sense of self as a teenager. And Jamie's going to be talking about navigating those changing and challenging expectations as you go from a teen to an adult. Should be a good time.

SPEAKER_02 2:36

I hope so. Yeah. Super exciting. Yeah. Oh, I know we've all been like talking a lot about that. And so our brains have been very much in teen space uh for the last couple of months. If you snag the very important participant ticket, you'll even get to interact with us live because we're going to do a closing Ask Us Anything panel. So if none of those three original topics are like really going to cover the burden question that you have, you're going to want one of those VIP tickets. To learn more and to register, you can hit pause or you can keep listening and head over to neuropeble.com/slash gems-summit. Or you can click the link that's in the show notes when you're done listening. And this is the last week to purchase tickets at an early bird rate. Tickets go to their normal price on April 13th. So if you're listening to this right as it comes out, you are an early bird, and there's Zeus knocking things up to click a time. He's ready for the summit. I love that for him. Wonderful. And this is the bonus. If you are uh watching our podcast on YouTube now, um, you can meet Zeus in the in the flesh or in the fur. In the fur. In the fur. Here he is.

SPEAKER_01 3:46

Love it. Well, today our questions do come from therapists, so that's kind of fun. Um, we'll jump right into our first one here. It says, Can you talk about the importance of downtime and alone time in high masking autistic teens? How to help them and their parents or family support that need, and how to recognize the difference between helpful alone or downtime and downtime or alone time that might be signs of isolation.

SPEAKER_00 4:10

Such an important question. Thing that I have to remind myself or remind parents that I'm working with is teens are at school for what, seven hours in a day. That just like that's just the sensory piece alone, or not being around that many people, the noises, the smells, the touch of like just bumping into people in a crowded hall, just is this constant wearing down of the energy or of just like that tolerance, not all not even mentioning the social pressures that are going on, the academic pressures, the trying to stay engaged the whole time, they are exhausted by the end of the day. And so it really makes a lot of sense to me that most teams across the board, whatever their neurotype, are gonna need downtime after school. And then especially if we have an autistic teen or a high-masking teen, they're really gonna need that transition time or a reset time. So I think a big part is having a conversation of like being specific about how they reset and are we being intentional with trying to reset and when and how that's happening. I know for myself, I have to keep going. If I stop, I will not start again. So if there's something to do after school, I have to do it. And if I stop, I won't start. Others have to have that break. So it's not a one size fits all. How do we do this with our teens?

SPEAKER_02 5:29

Yeah, I think there is um something really important about like what you talked about in terms of how much energy school itself takes. There is something really specific to each individual teen about how much energy that takes, but also what they need to do to recoup that energy. Sometimes I think there's a really quick uh movement into like, oh, downtime that's on a phone is bad because it's brain rent and it's doom scrolling and it's all these things. But for extroverted, um, like high-masking autistic teams, hello, um, I still needed the social engagement to get my battery back up, but I wasn't ready for that to be with family, and I wasn't ready for that to necessarily be anything that wasn't in the online space. And so I think it's gonna be also really getting to know like just because a team is autistic does not mean that they are um introverted, or does not mean that like their downtime is gonna look like resting in a dark room. It doesn't mean that it's not gonna look like that, but there's gonna be lots of different interpretations, and so it's really a matter of like, can you sit down and talk with your team about how is this feeling? Do you feel isolated right now or is this recharging you?

SPEAKER_01 6:40

I think that is one of the best things you can do is provide that space that feels comfortable and safe enough for your teen to tell you, hey, I need some downtime, or hey, I've been feeling really isolated lately. Can we go do something, or can I go see some friends, or go do go to an event, you know?

SPEAKER_00 6:58

An example I use often is like with a phone battery. If you're it starts with like draining the battery, but like we know if you're using your phone, depending on what you're doing, it's gonna drain your battery faster. If you're live streaming, watching something, the battery's not gonna last. If you're just texting, if you're just playing the game, like the battery is gonna kind of vary and change. And there might be some days where you have to keep your phone connected to the wall the whole day in order to even use your phone. There might be days you forget to charge it overnight and it's dead from the beginning. And there's days that the battery can last the whole time, but starting to like gain that awareness of like which activities drain the battery and which activities like allow the battery to sustain throughout the day. And that brings more like awareness and specificity to one, the team just knowing themselves, but then also like the family unit knowing what somebody might need, which is gonna change day to day.

SPEAKER_02 7:50

Absolutely. I'll also say that like downtime and alone time or like whatever that recoup time looks like is really important regardless. And also if you're finding like, oh, my team needs like all like 13 hours that they're not at school to recharge, it might also be worth looking into some accommodations, um, some, you know, maybe an IEP, maybe something so that they're not coming home so deeply depleted at the end of every single day. Like, like Jimmy said, like, there's definitely gonna be days regardless, and there are gonna be ways that you can say, like, this is really consistently battery, is at like phone is dead, um, you know, time to time to recharge the whole entire way. That's probably like not great for the overall nervous system and like well-being of that computer. Absolutely.

SPEAKER_01 8:43

I thought it goes along with like how do you help parents or their family support their needs, managing expectations and looking at the teen you've got in front of you and not the teen you think you should have in front of you. Every even if you've got like a house full of four teens, they're all gonna have very different needs and abilities and different levels of recharge that are needed.

SPEAKER_00 9:06

I think too that there can be a period of experimentation. The teen may not know what they need yet, you may not know, and we know that it all varies and changes day to day, week to week. So even I frame a lot of things as like, let's do an experiment, let's see if this helps, let's see if this changes it. Let's see, let's try this for this week and see if the outcome is different. And so it doesn't have to be this, like it'll forever be this, but like just for these days, we can let it go if it's not the thing. And we can keep doing it if we like it.

SPEAKER_02 9:35

Yeah. I also think it's important to think about like there are ways in which like this is also part of the stage of development, right? Like a little bit depending on the age of your team, but like the whole point of this stage of development is individualization. They might be like having downtime or or alone time or things like that from you, but again, they might be on their phone with friends or playing video games with friends or like writing notes to friends, you know, like they might be doing a lot of actually very social things, or they might be doing a lot of things that are in efforts to form that identity, which is a hallmark of this stage of development in the first place, that like, yeah, you're the family, they don't want to hang out with you. That's absolutely to be expected during this time as well.

SPEAKER_01 10:27

When do you both think it becomes more of that like we should be worried because of the alone time or the recharge time, or you know, haven't seen my teen in the last 14 hours on the weekend, and I go in there and they're staring at a wall. Is it recharge or is that like, oh, maybe we need to explore this?

SPEAKER_00 10:47

I think these questions are so hard because it's gonna vary, right? It's gonna depend so much on each person, but also what's going on for that person at that time. So it's hard to give like a solid answer. But I think that, well, if you haven't seen them in 14 hours and they're just staring at a wall, that's probably a sign that something's not great. Could be more likely, yes, but not absolutely. But I think that's gonna come with like having those clear conversations of like, at what point should I be worried? Or like at what point do you want me to step in of like so we can talk to people about what that cusp is so that teens can identify it for themselves and it can be a part of the conversation. So we're not interrupting something if it doesn't need to be, but if they need that, like us inserting, we know when that line is crossed and what that looks like.

SPEAKER_02 11:38

Yeah. I also think that there's like just because it is something that might be a sign that something's going on, remembering not to make that, oh no, my team is broken, or like this now means that like it could be again, oh that's a pretty intense recharge session needed. Um, and so even if it's still recharging, it might be like that's a lot of recharge need. Maybe it's time to go again, like look at an IEP, maybe talk to a therapist, maybe um see if your team like would like to do something or have something else going on. So, like for me, I can get very like sit, stare at a walled associative if I don't have enough social engagement, which it feels like really weird to people sometimes. Um, but that like it's actually really helpful if I find myself like really not able to sit down and like watch a show, play a video game, do something on my own, it usually means that I need to text someone and be like, hey, will you come hang out with us? Or like, can we go somewhere and do something? Um, and so maybe it's hey, teen, do you want to have friends over? Hey, teen, like, is school taking everything out of you right now? Um and how can I support you in this moment?

SPEAKER_01 12:54

Yeah, because sometimes when that teen is staring at the wall, it could mean they need some social engine, they need more stimulation, and other times it could be that they've got such a creative imagination that that's how they're recharging. They're just sitting there kind of daydreaming and zoning out, and they enjoy that. So I love that you both were like, let's just get more curious, because it could be a warning sign, could also be totally natural for that teen.

SPEAKER_02 13:16

Exactly. And there's like very much a I'm people really, really focus with autism on like, okay, they're they're overstimulated, but there's actually a lot of us who also get under-stimulated, and so finding a way to close that circle is really important.

SPEAKER_01 13:36

Ultimately, it sounds like communicating with the teen and figuring out, is this scary for them? Does this feel bad for them, or does it feel good for them? Sounds like what we're all kind of agreeing on.

SPEAKER_02 13:47

Yeah, I think that's gonna come down to most of our answers in general is like treating your kid with the respect that you would anyone else and like asking them, hey, what are you needing? Um, and hoping that they're in a place to respond or waiting until they are in a place to respond.

SPEAKER_01 14:00

Yeah. The second piece, you know, that we were asked is what do you recommend to parents of neurodivergent older teens and young adults that show okay, here's the wording, that show no motivation for moving towards independence, taking into account the complexities of society right now and how next to impossible society makes it for young people to survive.

SPEAKER_02 14:21

Yeah. I I saw you uh feel a certain way about that wording. I have a hard time with the like, if you're if you're already saying like they're showing no motivation for moving forward, what would be the context in which they would be shown motivation? Like, why? Why would you feel motivated to go into the completely shit job market and try to figure out housing costs that are astronomical? I'm not motivated for that and I do it.

SPEAKER_00 14:50

I would take it even a step back from that about like what is independence? Like, what are we, what is that expectation for what independence looks like at that age? And is that one age like age appropriate, neurotype appropriate, disability appropriate, circumstance appropriate to really delineate that out? Because if we lump it all together about they're not moving towards independence, what does that mean? That's a really big broad question. Is that living alone? Is it having a full-time job? Is it like what does that mean? Or is it that they're in charge of like feeding themselves? Is it that they're in charge of like doing their own laundry? Are they doing chores on a regular basis? Like, what do we mean? Because the motivation for each of those things is gonna be very different and the drive for it is gonna be very different, which I think is gonna really vary how we encourage or how we support or what the path is gonna look like for someone.

SPEAKER_02 15:44

I often also think about like adults get into this headspace of like independence, independence, how are they gonna be independent? I'm like, what interdependence are you offering them? Like what support, like I remember when I was um like starting to get ready to move out of my mom's house, like she almost didn't let me get a cat because she was like, it's gonna make you want to stay here longer, and we don't want that. And like that's just fucking painful to hear. Like, that's I mean, partially just how shitty my mom is, but like it is honestly a big part of this, like, oh, but you need to be ready to like you were saying, like, leave and do all these things yourself and stuff. And it's such an opposite thing to like my uncle, for example, who has this policy of like any of us can go and live in his house at any point in our lives, um, but you have to either be in school or working. And like that doesn't necessarily mean like you know, contributing to bills or anything, just it you have to be doing a thing, um, and then you are welcome to just stay there. And that motivated me so much more to want to like do things than did we just want you out really badly because independence.

SPEAKER_01 16:55

Right, or comparing them to their peers who, you know, well, your older sibling was able to move out or get a job or whatever by XYZ time frame or age, that's not very motivating, and that can really affect the self-esteem. Yeah.

unknown 17:10

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 17:11

I also find a lot of my teens and young adults, they are trying to get a job, and there is just nowhere to get a job.

SPEAKER_02 17:19

So if you're asking them to go full grown adults are trying to get a job, and there's nowhere to get a job.

SPEAKER_01 17:25

That's so many folks. Yeah, that so many people are getting laid off right now, and that doesn't mean that those positions are now open. Also, a lot of the folks going through layoffs have AA or bachelor's degrees or higher. Like our teens don't usually have that. Some of them may have their AA already, but it's just a lot of pressure. And when they go out into the world and they're trying really hard to get a job and they keep getting rejected, often that rejection sensitivity spikes. And so then they've got the employers going, No, we don't want you. They've got their parents going, Can you get out of the house? Can you go be independent? And they've got their friends who are also struggling and trying to figure out where they fit in the world if if they've got friends. I also work with a lot of teens and young adults who their goal is not really to find work or move out, their goal is to maybe find love and friendship.

SPEAKER_02 18:14

Connection and belonging. Yeah. I also like jinx.

SPEAKER_00 18:23

Um I also noticed like we talked about work, but with school, especially if we're talking about neurodivergent kids, they've been in school for 12 years as a full-time job. And if they had tutoring after school, if they had therapy after school, if they did other like more intensive programs, if they were in extracurriculars, they've been working full-time for how many years now? And a lot of the teens that I've worked with are at burnout at 18, 19, 20. And the idea of starting a new project, starting college, starting a career path, starting an independence is just this new mountain to climb when they feel like they just reached the peak of this enormous mountain they've already like cussed. And if it's work or school and they have a learning disability or they have a processing disorder, school doesn't sound so enticing. And so I think the way we talk about education, one, the necessity of it, depending on the path they're going, the timing of it, a lot of research shows that when people go back to school, they actually do much better because they've got they're more engaged and more focused on that specific thing they want to do. But really being open to the path looking very different. That there's like what where are the shoulds coming from that this is the next step? What are all the alternative next steps that we could create? Right.

SPEAKER_02 19:40

And also, does independence, whatever that means for you, actually even align with your values? Like it'll be these same parents who are like, yeah, like we need a you know, a culturally supportive, you know, social support-based community. Hey kid, get off my couch. Hold on now. We we something got lost in translation. We're not quite where we thought we were. And so I think that there is remembering that like the push for each individual human being to be living in their own home with their own set of bills and their own vehicle to maneuver to and from that home and like all of that, that is all capitalism. I want 20 mortgages instead of you know, and and rent payments um instead of five. And I want uh, you know, 20 individual water bills and electricity bills and gas bills instead of five. And like that's what the system is asking for. And so there's also the ways in which like really making sure, like, is this values aligned or is this societal pressure for you to have a quote unquote successful teenager um or child or what have you. And then also, because this question asks about neurodivergent older teens, young adults, um, and not just autistic or ADHD ones, that like some forms of neurodivergence do not suit themselves well to that at all. And the push for it is actually like antithetical. So, like, again, my mother and her bullshit about like you can't have a cat because I want you out of my house. Cool, my BPD is in full shutdown now, right? Like, that's a huge rejection, both for my RSD and my ADHD, but also for my BPD. And so, like, what neurodivergence does your child have? And then, like, how can you work within whatever system that neurodivergence creates to support them in identifying what the goal is and then reaching that goal? And that might be independence, but it might also be interdependence or living in a co op or living with friends or something that is more community based.

SPEAKER_00 21:52

I think changing up what the conversation about the certain goal is, or changing the language or exploring the language. I have had clients who are like being pushed to get a driver's license. And maybe they also want a driver's license. And often the motivator is when you first say, like, I don't know if I want it, people are like, oh, but you'll have so much independence. Some of my kids are like, I don't want that independence. I don't want to drive on the road. The roads are scary. Like that is not a motivator to have independence by having a license. But you know what is this going to the beach by myself so I can recharge? I would really like to not have to ask somebody if I can go to the beach and I would like to go to the beach. But if you said to me, well, you can have independence and then you can take yourself to the beach. Like some of that is the language we come down to, but how we associate with the task to make it connect to the person in front of us. So, like speaking to like this parent's question about like, yeah, there are ways we want to support people in whatever their next step is, but what is their next step in their eyes as well? And how to reach that and what the like the in-between steps might be if we're not looking for the license was achieved, but like, are they studying for the test? Are they talking about it more? Do they want to do practice driving? Like each one of those are pillars leading to the next step.

SPEAKER_01 23:13

Yeah. Absolutely. And there are there's so many ways to get to the beach that don't involve the driver's license. If your teen or young adult is like, look, I don't have the executive function for that, or it's too overwhelming from a sensory standpoint, or you know, whatever it is that they're worried about, there are a lot of car accidents that happen. There's there's tons of things they could worry about. How about like safe bike riding? Do they want to try that? Would they like to learn how to use the bus or transit system? Um, how do they want to go about maybe setting up carpools? Do they want to learn how to use Uber or Lyft or something else? And then exploring, well, how will we pay for that? What would that look like? You know, there's so many ways to get to some of those goals. And I think you're right, Jamie. The more we shift away from, well, in America, you have to have your own house, your own white picket fence, your own driver's license, your own car, your own mortgage, your own retirement fund, shifting towards like what do they want to make of their life. And even if those goals are like more in the here and now than in the future, that can still help build them towards being able to access the things they do want in the future as time goes on.

SPEAKER_02 24:19

Mm-hmm. I'll also say, so like this question, right, comes in from a therapist who's looking to support, like to talk to parents about this experience that parents are having, right? I would also say, like, within whatever your role is, so if your role is therapist to the teen client, then that's gonna look different than if your role is like the family therapist, for example, right? Um, but talking to the parent about like, okay, where did this expectation for you come from? Um, also, like this question on like um taking into account all of these things, pull up Zillow, pull up apartments.com, show them how much rent is. The amount of parents that I have worked with who like literally don't actually know how much it costs to rent or to like live alone right now, um, because they've owned their home for however old their child is or longer and like all these things, literally show them like they know the grocery prices are going up, but they don't realize, even just like in a city near me, one of my friends, her gas bill in the last three years has gone up by$150.

SPEAKER_00 25:22

Um I didn't live alone for the first time until I was 33. I had roommates that entire time because like it's just it isn't sustainable, it is so expensive to live alone. And like it wasn't even my choice to live alone when it happened. Um, I got divorced and I was like, oops, I'm living alone for the first time, didn't plan this. It is amazing and I love it now, but it would not have been my choice at like even then. So looking at even if we're looking at prices of stuff, does that mean they have to have friends that they could split it with? Are their friends in a place or are they gonna be living with strangers? And what is that whole barrier piece to?

SPEAKER_02 26:03

Exactly, exactly. And so, like, really helping them actually tangibly walk through like the world is different than it was. Um, showing them like here are the jobs that your child would be qualified for. We we're not even talking about interest yet, qualified for. Um, and here is the rent that they would need to come up with, and we're not looking even at what it would cost to have internet and phone and like all these things, and also remembering that like streaming services are trying to kick people off of sharing accounts now, like all these shit, right? So, how are you, do you as an adult who has been budgeting for again, however old your young adult is, do you know how to make that work on this budget? Why the fuck would your teenager? And you can have that really frank conversation with a lot of care, especially if you have rapport with the parents, which I hope you do, um, to say, like, not only like is this again, maybe not within your value set, or maybe not something that like you're envisioning for yourself, you're doing it because that's the societal thing, but also it might literally not be functional.

SPEAKER_00 27:09

I think having those conversations early on in a very just like frank, matter-of-fact way, to start introducing these concepts to like older teens or young adults about like, hey, just got the the heating bill. Look at how much this is. Interesting. Like, and you start introducing this is how much it is, or this is how we pay it, or hey, do you want to help me do this to start kind of hand holding or like simult, what is it, um, interdependence of how do we do this together? So it's not a foreign thing of like, now you have to do this all yourself, but also how do we start integrating some of those responsibilities in a controlled, safe, like non-punitive way? That's just matter of fact. Hey, the grocery bill came in, you had these specific things. Do you want to contribute? Or hey, we're gonna be doing X, Y, and Z to create the space that they can start owning some of those responsibilities. Cause if we don't create the space for them to step into it, there's no reason for them to, right? If we're handling everything, why do I need to take this over? But also if you just take it away and you're like, now it's yours, it can feel very punitive or like stuck or not their their independent choice.

SPEAKER_02 28:19

Yeah. I'll also just like the final thing that I usually do with parents in this place is remind them that their kid not wanting to stay at home or not having a motivation to leave is actually a sign of like usually decent parenting. Like my mother was completely fucking wrong. I wanted to get absolutely the fuck out of that house. Um, because I was being emotionally abused in that house, and so was she, and it was hard to watch. And so, like, there's actually a lot of like safety. If your kid is like, no, I've got it pretty good here. That's not a sign to say, well, how do I make it worse for you here to get you out? Right? That's a sign to say, oh shit, like I have like created an environment of safety for my for my kid that they now feel like safe and comfortable and supported enough to maybe it's not working. Maybe your kid is like trying to go into art or like content creation or something that you don't see as like a viable money-making solution, but it's that they feel safe enough to be creative, right? That they feel safe enough to actually go into a thing that they're really interested in because they don't have to be scrambling for$22 to pay, uh, you know, to rob Peter to PayPal for next month's rent and all this stuff. It's like, no, you're actually giving them something really, really important. Um, it's just that our society thinks that it's bad.

SPEAKER_00 29:42

I love that you said that so much. That is so, so accurate.

SPEAKER_01 29:49

Awesome. I think that's a great place for us to wrap up here so that we can go and record our bonus content. We're gonna probably talk more personally about our own experiences as neurodivergent teens. So if anyone's listening and wants a little insight on that and what we wished our parents, teachers, therapists, coaches, the adults in our lives knew how uh to support us better and what knowledge we wish they had, we're gonna go chat about that.

SPEAKER_02 30:13

You can expect new episodes weekly on Tuesdays. You can find Kate at Cryptid Learns, you can find me at Radical Insight Consulting on Facebook or Instagram. You can add a dot com to either of those at the end for our website. You can find our friend Jamie Roberts over at NeuroPedal on social media. Um, neuropeppel.com is the website. Um, and you can follow the podcast on Facebook or Instagram at Aces Up Your Sleeve Pod so you can interact with us. See you when new episodes release. If you have questions, please visit neurokink.org slash AUIS and send them our way. Don't forget to check out Jamie's book that's available now, actually, by the time this releases. Um, it's called Neurodiversity for Teen Girls, and it's available online now. It's full of simple strategies to help teens express difficult emotions, manage sensory stuff, and deal with the daily social dynamics. We're gonna head over to Patreon to record uh hit me again. I just saw you uh put the put the cover up, do it again. It's a great idea.

SPEAKER_01 31:07

Yeah, show it again.

SPEAKER_02 31:08

Yeah, yeah. Um that's neurodiversity for teen girls. Um, super exciting. Uh, we're gonna go over to Patreon now and record hit me again, our exclusive guest bonus content. Um, it's over at patreon.com slash Isis Upgorcy Podcast. Um, but you can also listen to it wherever you stream once you join our Patreon. Uh it has its very own private podcast stream. Um, and tiers start as low as$4. By the way, it sounds like Apple up charges people. So if you're using the App Store, go to a computer and sign up uh for the real pricing. Um and don't go through Apple's big annoying bullshit. Um, even for those of us who are unfortunately. All right, we'll see you at Patreon.