Trauma, Kink, Healing & PDA

 If submission has ever felt like a demand and triggered your PDA, this week’s episode might resonate with you! We’re answering if you’re a “bad sub” if you’re a PDAer, how to navigate explaining your nervous system to a partner, and why kink is healing. We explore a few ways people can heal from trauma and feel empowered by kink. Join us!

BTW: This is part 3 of our 3-parter mini series on kink as we look forward to an event later this month called THRIVE; it’s a virtual BDSM and mental health conference. THRIVE is from May 29 - 31st, all online, and it’s by donation - your donation towards your ticket ends up going right to the volunteer staff and presenters!

On this week’s Upping the Ante, our Patreon bonus content is focused on CPTSD, “disappearing” or “dissolving” during sex, and if it makes you a bad partner if you don’t reciprocate. If you’ve ever wondered why autistic and AuDHD focus seems to be different than allistic folks’ attention- especially in the bedroom- then you’ll want to hear what we’ve got to say!

(Also, if you’re a mental health professional, this is your last week to sign up for the first ever GEMS Neurodiversity Summit - this one’s focus is Autistic + ADHD Teens. It’s on May 16th starting at 10am Pacific and it’s going to be SO fun! We’re hoping to build a tightknit community and to continue hosting GEMS Summits in the future.)

• Find us at GEMS Neurodiversity Summit: Autistic + ADHD Teens this week: www.neuropebble.com/gems-summit 
• GEMS Neurodiversity Community for therapists on FB: https://www.facebook.com/groups/924737776755804 
• Join us at THRIVE later this month: https://thrivevirtualcon.com/
• Therapists can take a sneak peek at our June 17th, 2026, event here: https://www.cryptidlearns.com/course/kink-healing-inner-child-live

To ask us questions, fill out the form at www.neurokink.org/auys

Find more content on Patreon (18+): www.patreon.com/AcesUpYourSleevePodcast

Sabrina at www.radicalingingishtsconsulting.com or @radicalinsightsconsulting on social media (FB, IG)

Kade at www.cryptidlearns.com or @cryptidlearns on social media (FB, IG)

Transcript

SPEAKER_01 0:06

This is the Aces Up Your Sleeve podcast, and we're the Aces Up Your Sleeve in relationships from romantic to workplace, parental to platonic, your relationship with yourself, and everything in between. Led us to autistic aspect kinky therapist to be your secret weapon in neurodivergent life.

SPEAKER_00 0:24

And here's your disclaimer: this is not therapy or therapeutic advice, and we're not on the clock. What you'll hear are our thoughts on different topics, what we might do in your shoes, and how we've supported others through similar situations.

SPEAKER_01 0:54

This is the final part of our kink mini-series.

SPEAKER_00 0:56

So my god, it went so fast.

SPEAKER_01 0:59

I know. I've we could talk about this forever.

SPEAKER_00 1:02

Yeah, that's true. And we will. That's the nice part. Like, we're not done talking about kink on this podcast.

SPEAKER_01 1:07

So that's good. Yes, absolutely. And we're not done talking about it in our professional lives either. So if you're a therapist listening, quick reminder we're going to be presenting at the virtual BDSM and mental health conference. It's called Thrive. Everything's in the show notes. Uh, it'll be from May 29th through 31st, and registration is like a pay what you can by donation thing. Your donation goes right to the volunteer staff and the presenters. Thrive virtualcon.com is the link. And our specific topic is going to be autism and age play, embracing sensory joy. And some people are like, what is age play? We can get into that way more at the training. But a lot of what Sabrina and I talk about when we do presentations on kink in general is that connecting to your inner child piece. So expect to hear a lot of that. Expect to leave with some stuff that will really help you connect your sensory interest to this style of play and this kink. Our presentation is on May 30th at 11:30 a.m. uh Pacific Time. So if you're in a different time zone, you'll have to figure out when that is. And yeah, uh, you'll get a free handout. The handout will later be available for purchase, so you won't necessarily miss out. And then Sabrina's also going to be part of Thrive's Cluster B panel on May 31st, which is at uh 1.15 p.m. Pacific time. And yeah, that should be fun too. They have a lot of great, diverse folks that show up to do these panels.

SPEAKER_00 2:33

Yeah, I'm looking so forward to um some of the like because I know there's an S-type panel and a D-type panel, um, and just some really cool panels, but also some really cool, like individual. I'm just I'm so pumped. I'm so excited.

SPEAKER_01 2:48

It's it's always fun. And even if you like go into one of the presentations or panels and you're like, oh, I don't really agree with that presenter's take on this, you hop into the next one and you're like, oh, well, now I've found like my people. This makes so much more sense and clicks with me. And yeah, it's just very cool to see such a wide array of opinions and thoughts and knowledge, really.

SPEAKER_00 3:10

Yep, for sure. And um to be honest, depending on how your brain works, if you don't like one, hop over to the other room. There's gonna be like three rooms running most of the weekend.

SPEAKER_01 3:21

Yes, yeah, truly. Um, yeah, so that's Thrive. And then also in mid-June, we're gonna have something cool coming up that's related to kink. Again, mostly for therapists. So if you're following us on social media, you'll get some updates later. Woo! Cool. Oh, one more thing that we ought to pitch just in case anybody needs a reminder. What is this? May May 12th-ish. So coming up this week, uh, we've got our Gems Neurodiversity Summit. And this is the first one we've ever done, testing it out. Sabrina um and Jamie Roberts, who's been on the podcast a few times now. Uh, we are trying to basically bring the lived experience piece, the joy, and the passion for working with teens and supporting them into one big day-long summit on May 16th. It's gonna start at 10 a.m. Pacific, and depending on which ticket you get, you could be there for five hours with us, four hours with us. It should be a fun time.

SPEAKER_00 4:22

I'm really looking forward to it. And so you've heard us hawk it a little bit um because we're we're super excited. And then our hope is that um we will continue doing GEMS Neurodiversity Summits on different topics. So this topic is ADHD and autistic teens specifically. Um, you know, there's a chance that we do teens of other neurodivergent um experiences. We might do um kink at some point, we might do uh a whole bunch of different types of things. Yeah. And so you'll want to keep an eye, even if you're like, I don't really work with teens. That's not really my vibe. Um, make sure that you are still following and keeping up with it, um, just because we'll do other topics other times.

SPEAKER_01 5:01

Maybe we'll uh in the show notes, we can also pop a link to our Facebook community. It's like a gems community, it's not just for event attendees. Also, if you ever want to present at a summit, like that might be a good way to like let us know who you are, what your knowledge base is, what your lived experience is, because I don't think it's always gonna be just us if we continue doing it.

SPEAKER_00 5:21

Certainly not. Yeah, I think um we our hope is to keep it a little bit small this year, just you know, for sustainability um and then to kind of grow it. But definitely that community is also just a great place for any mental health provider or um any provider who is looking to increase your knowledge about like neurodivergent affirming care and remembering that like neurodivergent is not autistic and ADHD. It is a huge, wide uh umbrella, smorgasboard, um, all these different things of um of experiences. And so that space is meant to be really a space that we actually challenge that misconception um and are learning and growing in a in a bit more of an advanced way than I've seen in other Facebook groups.

SPEAKER_01 6:06

So the Thrive stuff is for general public and professionals, and gems is just for professionals at this time, but who knows what the future holds. So true. But to jump into today's topic, since we're still focusing on kink, we've got a couple questions around uh kink and trauma, kink and healing, kink and therapy. Our first one is hey aces, what do people mean when they say kink can be healing? I thought it's not related to trauma.

SPEAKER_00 6:35

I like um this question equating the idea that like all healing only happens if there's trauma. Like they have to go one in one. Um, that kind of tickles me.

SPEAKER_01 6:48

Yeah, and I mean that is such a common thought, though, that I run into where people are like, well, what do I have to heal from? I've never been through any trauma, or I have so much trauma, I need to heal, and I must find ways to heal, where like you can repair and heal from anything, anything that has caused some some harm or discomfort or a rupture in a relationship. You don't have to label it trauma in order to heal.

SPEAKER_00 7:15

Yeah. And also like we as uh people living in a like colonized community, in a colonized society, rather, um there's healing. It doesn't have to be your individual life healing, it can be healing um with the relationship with the planet, uh, the relationship with um other racial groups, um, especially if you're a white person. There's a lot of healing to be done systemically. Um, and this is part of what like social workers kind of get drilled into us, right? Is like there's micro, so small level individuals, individual people's interpersonal relationships. Like me and Kate have an interpersonal relationship, right? So we are two individuals with an interpersonal relationship. That's still a micro level experience. There's meso, so like my relationship with like my neighbors is gonna be more meso. It's not full systemic, but it's not really like super direct individual, especially as a neighborhood community, partially because my neighborhood is huge. When we're all at the pool, I might not know you individually, but how I'm acting is affecting how you are experiencing the space and all those types of things. And then there's macro, which is the whole big systems, right? The fact that HOAs have certain powers and privileges and in my state, right? That's a law, that's like a whole systemic thing. Each one of these things is interwoven to the extreme, like there is no pulling them apart, and so like the idea that like, oh I'm good, I don't need to heal anything, maybe directly, maybe there's some meso-level or some systems level, macro level stuff too. So I think that especially with kink being a way to like look at the world outside of social norms and in a really different way, um, and to approach things that way, if you apply that to systems, that can be healing, like even outside of a trauma sense.

SPEAKER_01 9:13

Absolutely. And you know, what do people mean when they say kink can be healing? There are so many types of kink and ways of existing in those dynamics, or viewing yourself or the solo play that you can engage in that can help. I mean, there's so many ways. So, one way we could start talking maybe on this route of like when you have experienced trauma or pain or harm through repeated patterns of relationships that seem to go awry in the same way every time, or become abusive in the same way, or toxic in the same way, and then you start to learn about kink and how there's like the four C's, and you've got like the ethical components where you're like, okay, now I know what consent is, what my boundaries are, or what I want them or need them to be, how to communicate them to that partner, how that partner is going to accept and collaborate on this with me, it starts to rewrite those patterns. You know, it that can be very healing to start to experience things that you haven't before and that directly go against how awful other things have been for you.

SPEAKER_00 10:27

Yeah, I think this idea of like, I thought it's not related to trauma. Something to remember is that like just because kink is not born of trauma, especially like all the time, like it might be for some folks, but certainly not always. And just because it does not lead to trauma for all people, right, does not mean it's not related to trauma sometimes for some people, right? That like that's a very like black and white kind of way to look at it, rather than saying it can empower people, even in the like S-type uh kind of bottom experience. There's a lot of empowerment over this is a highly consent-based experience. And so even as an S-type, even gag, like even all this shit, like I can put a stop to this at any second that I want to. Um, and I will remain empowered in that way the entire time that I'm engaging in it, right? Even if you don't hold like again, individual trauma or things like that, that might feel nice as a femme person, right? As a trans person, as um a neurodivergent person who like often doesn't feel very in control of their environment, even if that's not necessarily a trauma that you're holding or that you feel is a trauma, it might be something that still feels really good to be empowered in that way.

SPEAKER_01 11:42

Absolutely. It really gives you the autonomy to have a say in things and to maybe be in a different dynamic or position than you normally would be in society. We think of the macro and meso levels, it can really put a spin on that stuff.

SPEAKER_00 11:58

Mm-hmm. For some people, right? And sometimes it can just be really comforting or freeing or again empowering, or all these things that like people equate with healing. They might say, like, oh, this is so healing. And we certainly believe that too. And part of what they might mean by that is like it feels healing to me to feel this free. It feels healing to me to feel this authentic, feels healing to me to feel this um, you know, empowered, whatever the the kind of thing is. And like that is actually what they're kind of getting at inside of that.

SPEAKER_01 12:35

There's research out there that shows that when kinky people are in relationships, they're less anxiously attached and they find they need approval less often and that they feel more confident. So all of those qualities are not coincidence. It's almost by design when you're in those kink dynamics that are following certain ethical standards of consent and communication and uh being aware of safety risks, that you are going to build and strengthen the certain skill sets required to be less anxiously attached and get that reciprocated secure attachment and and know that, like, okay, this partner is here or partners are here for me in these specific ways. You can rely on them more, and it can yeah, kind of be a shift from what others might have had you experience before, or your worries about what you might experience in a relationship.

SPEAKER_00 13:27

Yeah. So I think they they probably mean lots of things, but those are are some of the starting points.

SPEAKER_01 13:33

Yeah. Um, the next one is can you be a submissive when you have demand avoidance? This person says, I love to do stuff for others when it's my idea and I'm choosing to do it, but when I'm told to do something, I turn into an asshole, and sometimes I hate the person. Maybe it also has to do with trauma. My parents are self-absorbed and used to boss me around like a literal servant. I feel like I'm submissive, but a bad sub. How do I tell play partners about this demand avoidance stuff, especially in a dynamic? How do I explain this?

SPEAKER_00 14:05

A couple things stand out. One, welcome to the brat side. Come be a brat is like my first thought there. I think there's also something inside of this that makes me wonder like, what is it that makes you feel submissive? Because like, even this idea of like I love to do stuff for others, like that's not what I get out of submission, which is like fine. We're a lot of get different stuff. But if like service tops exist, right? Like, would that maybe feel more comfortable? Like, I like to do it when it's of my choosing, but not when I'm told to do it. Sounds more like a service top to me than it does a sub.

SPEAKER_01 14:40

Yeah, yeah. You don't have to be submissive just because you enjoy helping people through acts.

SPEAKER_00 14:47

Yeah. And so I do wonder, like, if there's maybe just some more exploration of roles that might be helpful. That's not to say it's like the original question, right? Can you be a submissive when you have demand avoidance? Yeah. Sure. I think almost certainly my demand avoidance is not as strong as others. And so I could be missing something there, but I definitely think that you can probably be anything that you are. It might be difficult, right? It might be challenging in the same way that, like, can I be an extrovert while like pretty significantly socially anxious? Yep. Does it suck balls? Absolutely. It's awful. I hate it. So, like, there's there's some of that, but I do also wonder if there's just a little bit of space to like, have you actually explored all of the different role types that there are? Because there might be one that feels like it fits better.

SPEAKER_01 15:38

Yeah, also I feel like I'm a sub or I'm submissive, but a bad sub. A bad sub for who? Because there might be someone who is looking for exactly what you're describing who would not find it a challenge, who or would find it a fun challenge. Yeah, there's probably someone out there who you're the perfect match for. You just haven't run into them yet. I I know the usual discourse around submission is like you must always be submissive and listen to your Dom, whoever that is. That's not necessarily true, and some dominants don't like that.

SPEAKER_00 16:12

Mm-hmm. And I think to that point, so like I kind of jokingly said, like, come to the brat side. I actually don't know that bratting would be an ideal situation for someone with demand avoidance because, like, kind of the point is that, like, yeah, I'm not gonna do what you're saying, but then there's gonna be like a funishment, and there's like there's kind of a dynamic within that that still relies on like it's all in good fun, and like I am still like you know, like being told what to do and that kind of thing, and it's not having like when we think about demand avoidance and like challenges within demand avoidance, there's a nervous system component, and so we do want to make sure that you're not like activating your nervous system in an in a way that's ineffective or um long-term negative or things like that. Yeah, I do think that like if you want to find because like that's the thing, right? Is like brats usually go along with brat tamers. Your demand avoidance is not going to be tamed. Like, that's not how that tends to work well. Yeah. Do you know what I mean?

SPEAKER_01 17:13

Perhaps you could have a conversation though with the DOM in that situation to figure out like what sort of sensory regulation, like what things would help that we could play out in a kink way that would still end up with all of us getting our needs met while respecting that I might go into fight or flight mode for a little bit because those demands are gonna feel very intense at first and how do we quickly move through that?

SPEAKER_00 17:36

Right. Yeah, and like what is the the solve for that feeling? Right. So there's definitely ways to be creative there. Um, but I do also wonder, like, kind of like what Kate was saying, is like, okay, what would feel good to you in terms of like what how would your partner express a want for something that still feels like it's your idea and you're choosing to do it, but that also still puts them in that dominant position, right? Because like dominance is different for everyone. There's not one set like, oh, well, if you tell me what to wear, then you're dominant. Oh, well, if you do this, then you're dominant, right? It's like that's not really how that works. And so it could be worthwhile to just sit down and be like, okay, I'm looking for someone who's going to um let me serve them in the way that I am coming up with on my own, and that they're appreciative of being served, and that's the kind of Dom that they are.

SPEAKER_01 18:32

Absolutely. You know, there's also um oh gosh, I forget the name. I'm sure that everything has a name. So I'm sure this kink and and style of play or scene like has a name to it, but I learned about it through the folks that put on Thrive, they put on other events, and it was at one of those events where someone offhandedly mentioned this, and I thought, oh, that is an interesting thing. Um it's like the role of the submissive is to be a mind reader. So they never get told what to do, they anticipate and plan and give and hopefully hit it uh the nail on the head there. Yeah. Um, and that takes some of that demand avoidance and the like challenges of how does the DOM ward the request or how do they communicate the request uh when it becomes more of like a fun guessing game of like I think I know my partner at this point and what they might want or like, um, and trying to do it ahead of time.

SPEAKER_00 19:31

Yeah, that might be really enjoyable. Um so I think that there's like lots of different ways. I think really noticing that like that thought of like I feel like I'm in submissive but a bad sub, like that is gonna probably get you into some sticky waters. Just like anytime that we have a lot of self-judgment in any direction, like it it just ends up pretty poorly. Um, especially when we're then trying to tell people about it and talk to them about it. And you know, we talked in the first episode of this mini-series about like when you say things confidently, that really helps your case. I think that that's another thing here is like, how do I explain this? I bet it will become clearer once you do some self-exploration. Um, and so and self-exploration needs there to not be self-judgment, right? For you to actually get into all of the depths of it.

SPEAKER_01 20:24

Yeah, and you know, verdict, stamp of approval, you don't sound like a bad anything. It's cool that you're doing this level of like introspection and self-reflection and trying to figure out where do you fit, what might you want to explore, how could you find ways to be true to yourself and enjoy things still.

SPEAKER_00 20:42

Yeah, absolutely. I think I'll end it with this that it sounds like it's very worthwhile to just sit down and like make a list of all the shit you like, make a list of all the shit you don't like, figure out like the specific words. It is totally fine to go up to someone and be like, here's the script. Like, here are the sets of words that like my nervous system can handle in scenes. Like that is part of the consent organization that you're doing at the beginning as you're setting up like what does this scene want to be? How do we want to play with each other? All these things. Ain't no wrong with a little script.

SPEAKER_01 21:15

No, no, or if that feels like too much work up front and you just heard all that as a demand. There's also links out there for people to go look up declarative language and how to learn that. Like, that's on the other person to go learn it for you.

SPEAKER_00 21:29

Very true. I think um, you know, how do I tell my partners about this demand avoidance stuff, especially in a dynamic? Tell them, I mean, like you just said it. How do I do it? Tell them, you know, like hey, I have demand avoidance now. Like Kate said, I probably just said that in a way that's like, you know, super demandy. But um, like I'm very much a person who like I'm going to say these words, and if they scare you the fuck off, then that's probably better for me in the long run.

SPEAKER_01 21:56

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 21:57

Um, and if you're willing to sit down. And like listen and actually follow through and ask questions and you know do your own research and all that stuff, then that actually is a much better sign. And I'm way more likely to actually enjoy having fun with you. But if it wasn't going to be this, it was gonna be something else, and I'd rather know now.

SPEAKER_01 22:13

Which is generally what we're looking for in play partners or partners in general, someone who's open to doing a little extra to figure out who we are and what we need and what that means. So hopefully, yeah, you'll find someone who's doing that for you. Cool. On our bonus content, we're gonna go chat about disappearing during sex um and CPTSD or complex post-traumatic stress disorder. Is it okay to do that? Is it a trauma response? Is it fair to your partner? We'll give our thoughts.

SPEAKER_00 22:44

Please expect new episodes weekly on Tuesdays. You can find Kate at Cryptid Learns and Sabrina or me at Radical Insights Consulting on Facebook or Instagram. You can add a dot com to the end of either one of those for our websites. Follow the podcast on Facebook or Instagram at AcesUp Your Sleeve Pod so you can interact with us and see when new episodes release. Um, if you have any questions for us, visit neurokink.org slash A UI S and send it our way. We're gonna jump over to Patreon and record upping the ante or exclusive bonus content over at patreon.com slash aces up your sleeve podcast. Uh, you can also listen to it wherever you stream once you join our Patreon. Bye bye.